such as Malaysia and Kenya, how do they implement the compliance to Mandela Rules with scarce resources since the counter argument that SUHAKAM always receives was that there are no funds to change the system? Is there any creative way to implement the compliance to the Mandela Rules? Mr. Tanaka responded that it is understandable that some rules do require budgets. Some prisons might face difficulties to implement compliance due to limited budget and resources. In some countries including Southeast Asian countries, resources are focused to the administration and management but in terms of the outbreaks of COVID-19, there some countries that have already implemented some clear and rapid countermeasures to reduce prison populations because overcrowding causes serious challenges to the management of prisoners. Similarly, it is important to empower prison staffs with awareness. In terms of prisoners infected by COVID-19, they should not be brought into the prison to contain the spread of virus. Mr. Tanaka believes that guidelines or SOP can be developed with the support of WHO for prison staffs to perform operations in prisons during the outbreak of infectious diseases such as COVID-19. As for Kenya, Ms. Wachira said that they are facing issues with the maintenance of prisons with colonial structures. The structures are below the standards, but she has seen lots of creativity when it comes to maintaining the standards for example efforts to decongest prisons through the release of a huge number of prisoners. The judicial system helps to support the prison with alternative sentences instead of imprisonment which is beneficial in improving the condition in prisons. She had learned that incarceration is not necessary for a lot of offences especially during the outbreak of COVID-19 pandemic. Further, Kenya is practicing an open-door policy where NGOs are allowed to step in to support the prison system in maintaining human rights standards and the condition in prisons. Ms. Verma reiterated that government funding is not the only way to address the implementation of prison standards in Malaysia and around the world. Prison crisis happens since prison management is not a political priority and that is a reality. However, funding is important, and it is the State responsibility to ensure that resources are available to protect and to promote the rights of people in prison and the works that need to be done on rehabilitation which is the primary goal of imprisonment as set by the Mandela Rules. The approaches to the Mandela Rules depend on the interpretation of the authorities. She thinks that there are creative approaches and in fact, there are studies and research indicating that imprisonment imposes a far higher cost on the government and society. VIII. Dato’ Narander Singh mentioned that Mandela Rules is not the result but a process for the prison to achieve the proposed standards. He presented a hypothesis that achieving the total standard of Mandela Rules is easier in 37